How to pk SEO with HTML Websites?

[pntglobal]

Ok guys, this may or may not be in the correct section...

I'm in the process of designing a site for an Irish Pub. My issue? They want search-ability, mixed with a flash layout design. Now I suck at any kind of SEO or programming situation. But is there a way for me to get around this? I thought of having an intro page designed in html, that leads to the flash page.?!?

Obviously, I'm lost with this kind of stuff... so any help is appreciated!

[BigAlReturns]

You're in a difficult situation, but I would be completely up front with your client. Tell them that flash sites and SEO are more or less mutually exclusive, and if they find someone who says otherwise, then they're wrong! Direct them to me if they don't believe you!!
Intro pages are a bad idea in my opinion, as an end user they just annoy me, and if it's the only HTML on the site, it won't improve the SEO situation by even close to enough to make up for this.
The other feasible option is to make a primarily HTML site, with flash only where appropriate. So if they want a fancy animated menu, you could do that alone in flash, integrated into the page, with alternative text links in, for example, the footer. In fact, there's a lot you can do with creative DHTML that is more or less as much as can be achieved with Flash.
Finally, if they really insist on a flash site, tell them you'll do it, and make it as search engine optimised as you can, but no-one in the SEO world can *guarantee* results. They won't rank well, but you still end up getting paid, and it's there fault for being so damn stubborn!

[ryanhellyer]

Originally Posted by BigAlReturns

Tell them that flash sites and SEO are more or less mutually exclusive, and if they find someone who says otherwise, then they're wrong! Direct them to me if they don't believe you!!

I think it depends on the way you look at it. An entirely Flash site will suck SEO wise. However an HTML/CSS site with heavy amounts of Flash inserted can be very well optomised for search engines.


There are two methods for making Flash sites indexable.

• Use sIFR for your text if they want all the text rendered in flash ... http://www.mikeindustries.com/sifr. This will make the pages slow to load however, although this will likely be a problem for any flash rendered text.
  
• Create an HTML/CSS site and redirect any users who have Flash to another identical site which uses Flash. That way if someone links to the site, it will direct the search engine to the HTML/CSS page which will then be indexed accordingly.

Another method is to create two sites, one with HTML/CSS, one with Flash and then give users the option on loading your home page. However if someone links to your Flash site, the Page Rank will be wasted as there will nothing indexable on the page for the search engines to read.

I haven't tried any of these methods though. I hate Flash sites with a passion, they're pointless and stupid - usually.

[BigAlReturns]

Originally Posted by ryanhellyer

I haven't tried any of these methods though. I hate Flash sites with a passion, they're pointless and stupid - usually.

I couldn't agree more with you - Flash has it's place in the online world (an ever decreasing place I would say), but simpleish sites are most definitely not this place! The problem is I don't know what the general public feels about them - watching and speaking to my parents, for example, I doubt they'd even know if they were on a flash site or not!
Good link on sIFR - I'd forgotten about that! The two sites option is valid, as long as the OP is going to get paid for making two sites though!

[ryanhellyer]

Flash definitely has it's uses IMO, including on small sites. In particularly I think it has important uses for online applications, viewing videos etc. But not for design; that can be done using HTML/CSS and maybe a little JavaScript if you really need to (but only if it isn't for an essential function, or has a fall back non Javascript way to do the same thing).